LIVE TRANSCRIPT SERVICE:
Saddleback Civil Forum on the Presidency
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THE COMPUTERIZED, REALTIME NOTES
3 (COMPUTER NOTES, ROUGH DRAFT TRANSCRIPTS, OR DISKS)
4 CANNOT BE USED, CITED, OR CERTIFIED
5 AS THE OFFICIAL RECORD OR CERTIFIED
6 TRANSCRIPT OF THE CIVIL FORUM ON PRESIDENCY.
7 THERE MAY BE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE
8 COMPUTERIZED, REALTIME NOTES AND THE
9 CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT.
10 ONLY THE CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT OF
11 THE CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER CAN BE
12 THE OFFICIAL RECORD OF THE CIVIL FORUM ON PRESIDENCY
13 BEING TAKEN.



5 PASTOR RICK: WELCOME BACK TO THE SADDLEBACK CIVIL
6 FORUM ON THE PRESIDENCY. IN THIS LAST SESSION, I WANT US
7 TO TALK ABOUT AMERICA'S RESPONSIBILITY TO THE REST OF THE
8 WORLD. WE ARE THE MOST BLESSED NATION IN THE WORLD AND
9 WE'RE BLESSED TO BE A -- BLESSING -- REQUIRED SO LET'S
10 JUST GO DOWN SOME OF THOSE ISSUES, INTERNATIONAL ISSUES.
11 FIRST THING, LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT WAR. AS AN AMERICAN,
12 WHAT'S WORTH DYING FOR? WHAT'S WORTH HAVING SACRIFICE OF
13 AMERICAN LIVES FOR?
14 A WELL, OBVIOUSLY AMERICAN FREEDOM, AMERICAN LIVES,
15 AMERICA'S NATIONAL INTERESTS. YOU KNOW, I WAS JUST WITH
16 MY FAMILY ON VACATION IN HAWAII, VISITED THE PLACE WHERE
17 MY GRANDFATHER IS LAID TO REST, THE PUNCHBOWL NATIONAL
18 CEMETERY AND WENT OUT TO ARIZONA, OUT IN PEARL HARBOR AND
19 YOU KNOW YOU ARE REMINDED OF THE SACRIFICES THAT HAD BEEN
20 MADE ON BEHALF OF OUR FREEDOM AND I THINK THAT IS A SOLEMN
21 OBLIGATION THAT WE ALL HAVE. I THINK WE ALSO HAVE FORGED
22 ALLIANCES WITH COUNTRIES, NATO BEING A PRIME EXAMPLE WHERE
23 WE HAVE PLEDGED TO ACT MILITARILY FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE
24 THAT IS IN OUR NATIONAL INTEREST AND THAT IS SOMETHING I
25 THINK WE HAVE TO ABIDE BY.
1 Q WHAT WOULD BE THE CRITERIA THAT YOU WOULD COMMIT
2 TROOPS TO END THE GENOCIDE, FOR INSTANCE, LIKE WHAT'S
3 GOING ON IN DARFUR OR COULD HAPPEN IN GEORGIA OR ANYWHERE
4 ELSE, A MASS KILLING?
5 A I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS A HARD AND FAST LINE
6 AT WHICH YOU SAY, OKAY, WE ARE GOING IN. I THINK IT IS
7 ALWAYS A JUDGMENT CALL. I THINK THAT THE BASIC PRINCIPLE
8 HAS TO BE THAT IF WE HAVE IT WITHIN OUR POWER TO PREVENT
9 MASS KILLING AND GENOCIDE AND WE CAN WORK IN CONCERT WITH
10 THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY TO PREVENT IT THEN WE SHOULD
11 ACT. NOW, WE HAVE TO DO SO -- WE HAVE TO DO SO I THINK
12 THAT INTERNATIONAL COMPONENT IS VERY CRITICAL. WE'RE
13 NOT -- WE MAY NOT GET 100 PERCENT AGREEMENT, BUT --
14 Q -- GO TO THE WAR WITHOUT APPROVAL?
15 A YES, BUT I THINK YOU TAKE AN EXAMPLE LIKE BOSNIA
16 WHEN WE WENT IN AND UNDOUBTEDLY SAVED LIVES. WE DID NOT
17 HAVE YOU UN APPROVAL BUT THERE WAS A STRONG INTERNATIONAL
18 CASE THAT HAD BEEN MADE THAT ETHNIC CLEANSING WAS TAKING
19 PLACE. AND UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES WHEN WE HAVE, WITHIN
20 OUR POWER, WE SHOULD -- YOU KNOW WE SHOULD TAKE ACTION.
21 Q OKAY. THIS ONE IS DEAR TO MY HEART. MOST PEOPLE
22 DON'T KNOW THAT THERE ARE 148 MILLION OTHER FANS IN THE
23 WORLD, 148 MILLION KIDS GROWING UP WITHOUT MOMMIES AND
24 DADS. THEY DON'T NEED TO BE IN AN ORPHANAGE, THEY NEED TO
25 BE IN FAMILIES BUT A LOT OF FAMILIES CAN'T AFFORD TO TAKE

1 THESE KIDS IN.
2 A RIGHT.
3 Q WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO CONSIDER AND EVEN COMMIT
4 TO DOING SOME KIND OF EMERGENCY PLAN FOR OTHER FANS LIKE
5 PRESIDENT BUSH DID WITH AIDS ALMOST A PRESIDENT'S
6 EMERGENCY PLAN FOR ORPHANS TO DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE?
7 A I CHEATED A LITTLE BIT. I ACTUALLY LOOKED AT
8 THIS IDEA AHEAD OF TIME AND I THINK IT IS A -- I THINK
9 IT'S A GREAT IDEA. I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE SHOULD
10 SIT DOWN AND FIGURE OUT WORKING BETWEEN NONGOVERNMENTAL
11 ORGANIZATIONS, INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTIONS, THE US
12 GOVERNMENT, TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT CAN WE DO. I THINK
13 THAT PART OF OUR PLAN THOUGH HAS TO BE HOW DO WE PREVENT
14 MORE ORPHANS IN THE FIRST PLACE AND THAT MEANS THAT WE'RE
15 HELPING TO BUILD THE PUBLIC HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE AROUND
16 THE WORLD, THAT WE ARE YOU KNOW BUILDING ON THE GREAT WORK
17 THAT YOU AND, BY THE WAY, THIS PRESIDENT HAS DONE WHEN IT
18 COMES TO AIDS FUNDING AROUND THE WORLD. I THINK YOU KNOW
19 I'M OFTEN A CRITIC OF PRESIDENT BUSH BUT I THINK THE
20 PETFAR PROGRAM HAS SAVED LIVES AND HAS DONE VERY GOOD WORK
21 AND HE DESERVES ENORMOUS CREDIT FOR THAT.
22 Q RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION, WHAT DO YOU THINK THE US
23 SHOULD DO TO END RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION FOR INSTANCE IN
24 CHINA, IN IRAQ AND IN MANY OF OUR ALLIES. I'M NOT JUST
25 TALKING ABOUT PERSECUTION OF CHRISTIANITY, PARTICUALLY
1 WITH THE PERSECUTION AROUND THE WORLD THAT PERSECUTES
2 MILLIONS OF PEOPLE?
3 A WELL, I THINK THE FIRST THING WE HAVE TO DO IS TO
4 BEAR WITNESS AND SPEAK OUT AND NOT PRETEND THAT IT'S NOT
5 TAKING PLACE. YOU KNOW OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH CHINA FOR
6 EXAMPLE IS A VERY COMPLICATED ONE. WE'RE TRADING PARTNERS
7 UNFORTUNATELY THEY ARE NOW LENDERS TO US BECAUSE WE
8 HAVEN'T BEEN TAKING CARE OF OUR ECONOMY THE WAY WE NEED TO
9 BE. I DON'T THINK ANY OF US WANT TO SEE MILITARY CONFLICT
10 WITH CHINA SO WE WANT TO MANAGE THIS RELATIONSHIP AND MOVE
11 THEM INTO THE WORLD COMMUNITY AS A FULL PARTNER BUT WE
12 CAN'T PURCHASE THAT BY IGNORING THE VERY REAL PERSECUTIONS
13 THAT ARE TAKING PLACE. AND SO HAVING ADMINISTRATION
14 THAT'S SPEAKING OUT, JOINING IN INTERNATIONAL FORUMS WHERE
15 WE CAN POINT OUT HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES AND THE ABSENCE OF
16 RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, THAT I THINK IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL.
17 OVER TIME, WHAT WE ARE DOING IS SETTING UP NEW NORMS AND
18 CREATING A UNIVERSAL PRINCIPLE THAT PEOPLE'S FAITH AND
19 PEOPLE'S BELIEFS HAVE TO BE PROTECTED AND AS YOU SAID,
20 IT'S NOT JUST CHRISTIANS. WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE -- ONE
21 THING THAT I THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR US TO DO ON ALL
22 THESE ISSUES IS TO LEAD BY EXAMPLE. THAT'S WHY I THINK
23 IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR US TO HAVE RELIGIOUS TOLERANCE HERE
24 IN THE UNITED STATES. THAT'S WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT FOR US
25 WHEN WE ARE CRITICIZING OTHER COUNTRIES ABOUT RULE OF LAW

1 TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE ABIDING BY RULE OF LAW AND HABEAS
2 CORPUS AND WE'RE NOT ENGAGING IN TORTURE BECAUSE THAT
3 GIVES US A MORE OR LESS STANDARD TO TALK ABOUT THESE OTHER
4 ISSUES.
5 Q OKAY. ANOTHER ISSUE, THE THIRD LARGEST AND THE
6 FASTEST GROWING CRIMINAL INDUSTRY IN THE WORLD IS HUMAN
7 TRAFFICKING. $32 BILLION A YEAR, LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW
8 THAT THERE ARE ABOUT 27 MILLION PEOPLE LIVING IN SLAVERY
9 RIGHT NOW, MANY THEM IN SEX TRAFFIC, BUT IN OTHERS. HOW
10 DO WE SPEAK OUT AND HOW DO YOU PLAN TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT?
11 A THIS HAS TO BE A TOP PRIORITY. THIS IS AN AREA
12 WHERE WE'VE ALREADY BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT ON THIS ISSUE.
13 WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS TO CREATE BETTER, MORE EFFECTIVE
14 TOOLS FOR PROSECUTING THOSE WHO ARE ENGAGING IN HUMAN
15 TRAFFICKING AND WE HAVE TO DO THAT WITHIN OUR COUNTRY.
16 SADLY, THERE ARE THOUSANDS WHO ARE TRAPPED IN VARIOUS
17 FORMS OF ENSLAVEMENT HERE IN OUR COUNTRY, OFTENTIMES YOUNG
18 WOMEN WHO ARE CAUGHT UP IN PROSTITUTION. SO WE'VE GOT TO
19 GIVE PROSECUTERS THE TOOLS TO CRACK DOWN ON THESE HUMAN
20 TRAFFICKING NETWORKS. INTERNATIONALLY WE'VE GOT TO SPEAK
21 OUT AND WE'VE GOT TO FORGE ALLIANCES WITH OTHER COUNTRIES
22 TO SHARE INTELLIGENCE TO ROLL UP THE FINANCING NETWORKS
23 THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THEM. IT IS A DEBASEMENT OF OUR
24 COMMON HUMANITY WHENEVER WE SEE SOMETHING LIKE THAT TAKING
25 PLACE.

1 Q OKAY. IN A MINUTE, IN ONE MINUTE BECAUSE I KNOW
2 YOU COULD TAKE THE ENTIRE HOUR ON THIS, TELL ME IN A
3 MINUTE WHY YOU WANT TO BE PRESIDENT?
4 A YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER WHAT MY MOTHER USED TO TELL
5 ME. I WAS TALKING TO SOMEBODY A WHILE BACK AND I SAID THE
6 ONE TIME THAT SHE'D GET REALLY ANGRY WITH ME IS IF SHE
7 EVER THOUGHT THAT I WAS BEING MEAN TO SOMEBODY OR UNFAIR
8 TO SOMEBODY. SHE SAID, IMAGINE STANDING IN THEIR SHOES,
9 IMAGINE LOOKING THROUGH THEIR EYES, THAT BASIC IDEA OF
10 EMPATHY. AND THAT I THINK IS WHAT'S MADE AMERICA SPECIAL
11 IS THAT NOTION, THAT EVERYBODY'S GOT A SHOT. IF WE SEE
12 SOMEBODY DOWN AND OUT, IF WE SEE A KID WHO'S -- WHO CAN'T
13 AFFORD COLLEGE THAT WE CARE FOR THEM TOO. AND I WANT TO
14 BE PRESIDENT BECAUSE THAT'S THE AMERICA I BELIEVE IN AND I
15 FEEL LIKE THAT AMERICAN DREAM IS SLIPPING AWAY I THINK WE
16 ARE AT A CRITICAL JUNCTURE ECONOMICALLY, I THINK WE ARE AT
17 A CRITICAL JUNCTURE INTERNATIONALLY. WE'VE GOT TO MAKE
18 SOME BIG DECISIONS NOT JUST FOR US BUT FOR THE NEXT
19 GENERATION AND WE KEEP ON PUTTING IT OFF AND UNFORTUNATELY
20 OUR POLITICS IS SO BROKEN AND WASHINGTON IS SO BROKEN THAT
21 WE CAN'T SEEM TO BRING TOGETHER PEOPLE OF GOODWILL TO
22 SOLVE THESE COMMON PROBLEMS. I THINK I HAVE THE ABILITY
23 TO BUILD BRIDGES ACROSS PARTISAN LINES, RACIAL, REGIONAL
24 LINES TO GET PEOPLE TO WORK ON SOME COMMON SENSE SOLUTIONS
25 TO CRITICAL ISSUES AND I HOPE THAT I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY

1 TO DO THAT.
2 Q ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO SKIP OVER A COUPLE OF
3 THESE OTHER IMPORTANT ONES AND I'LL JUST ASK YOU WHAT DO
4 YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE ME ASKING YOU THESE
5 QUESTIONS? THAT WILL BE THE LAST ONE.
6 A THESE ARE THE KINDS OF FORUMS WE NEED WHERE WE
7 HAVE A CONVERSATION AND I THINK BASED ON -- BASED ON THESE
8 CONVERSATIONS THE AMERICAN PEOPLE CAN MAKE A GOOD
9 JUDGEMENT. ONE OF THE THINGS IF YOU ARE A PERSON OF FAITH
10 LIKE ME, I BELIEVE THAT THINGS WILL WORK OUT AND WE WILL
11 GET THE PRESIDENT THAT WE NEED. WHAT YOU WANT THOUGH IS
12 JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE HAVE GOOD INFORMATION, THAT
13 THEY'RE NOT JUST CONSUMING NEGATIVE ADS OR THE KIND OF
14 NASTY TIT FOR A TAT THAT HAS BECOME SO COMMON IN POLITICS.
15 I WANT PEOPLE IT TO KNOW ME WELL. I'M SURE JOHN MCCAIN
16 FEELS THE SAME WAY. IF WE ARE BOTH KNOWN AND PEOPLE KNOW
17 WHERE WE STAND ON ISSUES I TRUST IN THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
18 THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE A GOOD DECISION AND WE ARE GOING TO
19 BE ABLE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEMS THAT WE FACE.
20 Q WE HAVE 30 SECONDS. WHAT WOULD YOU TELL THE
21 AMERICAN PUBLIC IF YOU KNEW THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY
22 REPERCUSSIONS?
23
24 A YOU KNOW WHAT, I WOULD TELL THEM IS THAT SOLVING
25 BIG PROBLEMS LIKE FOR EXAMPLE ENERGY IS NOT GOING TO BE


1 EASY AND EVERYBODY'S GOING TO HAVE TO GET INVOLVED AND WE
2 ARE GOING TO HAVE TO ALL THINK ABOUT HOW ARE WE USING
3 ENERGY MORE EFFICIENTLY AND THERE IS GOING TO BE A PRICE
4 TO PAY IN TRANSITIONING TO A MORE ENERGY EFFICIENT ECONOMY
5 AND DEALING WITH ISSUES LIKE CLIMB AUNT CHANGE. IF WE
6 PRETEND LIKE EVERYTHING IS FREE AND THERE IS NO SACRIFICE
7 INVOLVED THEN WE ARE BETRAYING THE TRADITION OF AMERICA.
8 I THINK ABOUT MY GRAND PARENT'S GENERATION COMING OUT OF A
9 DEPRESSION, FIGHTING WORLD WAR TWO, YOU KNOW THEY'VE
10 CONFRONTED SOME CHALLENGES WE CAN'T EVEN IMAGINE. IF THEY
11 WERE WILLING TO MAKE SACRIFICCES ON OUR BEHALF, WE SHOULD
12 BE ABLE TOLD MAKE SOME SACRIFICES ON BEHALF OF THE NEXT
13 GENERATION.
14 Q SENATOR THANK YOU. NOW, WOULD YOU STAND -- WOULD
15 YOU STAND AND THANK SENATOR BARACK OBAMA. THANK YOU.
16 THANK YOU AND WHILE YOU ARE STILL STANDING, WOULD YOU
17 WELCOME AT THE SAME TIME SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN WOULD YOU
18 WELCOME HIM AS HE COMES OUT HERE. THANK YOU GUYS. THANK
19 YOU GUYS THANK YOU SO MUCH